3.17.2009
He Who Has Ears Let Him Hear... (and anyone else who needs to vent, rant, or rave about something)
at 7:48 AMI am not one to note, comment on, or acknowledge letters, emails, or phone calls where people share their feelings on things I say & preach, but I received a letter yesterday that I believe can set a standard for you pastors who read this blog as well as the many of you who attend Forefront Church on a regular basis. This individual did not have a return address or signed name so I have no idea who they are. We'll call them "Mr. Church Goer."
Here is the letter I received...
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March 9, 2009
To Whom It May Concern:
I just wanted to let you know that I am never going to Forefront again. I have never been so hurt as I have by Pastor Jason. Yesterday, he said that we are "wasting space in our seats on Sunday" if we are not serving somewhere. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! A person's right to attend church on Sunday shouldn't have anything to do with whether we choose to serve! I mean all teh rock music and very inappropriate videos you show are one thing, but for the pastor to make such a horrible comment was just more than I could stand.
I have been going to Forefront since the first Sunday at the Strawbridge Theaters. The service was so wonderful back then with Vince, Joe, Roland, Chris and all the other great people who used to be there. You had to get there early to find a seat. What happened to this church? The attendance is really down and after last Sunday I can see why. I really miss the Forefront that I that I have called my church home for so many years. I am now looking for another church to attend... and support!! Las Vegas??? Maybe.
Love God. Love People. Forefront needs to work on the second one.
Thank you for your time,
Mr. Church Goer
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Dear Mr. Church Goer,
First off, I want to thank you for sending such a letter my way.
This is not me being sarcastic in any form, I do truly thank you. I am hoping this will be a call to you and all people who have a frustration to come and share it in a Biblical way, but I can't communicate it to you personally since I don't know who you are. I am disheartened that you wouldn't approach me one on one to discuss this and practice some Matthew 18 principles:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
Now I included the text for you, Mr. Church Goer, but I'm sure that you've heard this and read it before in the 11 years you've attended Forefront. I can see that the serving issue is not your only frustration ("...all the rock music and very inapproprate videos"), but we'll simply address the issue at hand. Serving.
Forefront since day one has been about three things: Loving God, Love People, and Turning the World Upside Down. Those get carried out by every person at Forefront doing three things: Participating in Forefront Sunday services, sharing community with others in a Gel Group (small group), and Serving the local church as well as abroad to reach all people to Turn The World Upside Down. These precepts are nothing new.
I've known them since the day I heard about the church and also attended the first service... and when I came on staff almost 2 years ago and listened to Vince's vision casting message. Let me assure you that being a follower of Christ and calling Him our Lord and Savior burdens us to serve. It's an outpouring of our being. It's the very thing God commands of us. In James 2:14-25, James shares this:
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
Serving is something that works hand in hand with our faith and not doing so as someone who loves Jesus is just us "wasting space." It ends up being empty praise to God if we worship Sundays and do nothing more (if we have committed ourselves to Jesus). But, for someone who is searching and trying to figure this out... this is not the case. They are still on the journey. I noted that also in my message, but I'm disappointed you weren't ready to note that in your letter.
Jesus tells us that, 1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful." If we are not serving & living out His call to reach others and be a part of His plan to "bear fruit," than He will, "cut off every branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit." If you are offended that people who claim Jesus and are not serving are "wasting space," let's but it another way, "you're gonna be pruned and cut off." -Jesus
I just want to make sure you are clear on a few things Mr. Church Goer:
1. You mentioned going to "Las Vegas??? Maybe." I wouldn't if I were you. I'm not speaking for Vince, but I am fairly certain he wouldn't want someone to come and help in Vegas who after 11 years still doesn't get that being a Christ-follower means we are commanded to serve.
2. You stated, "I am looking for another church to attend... and support!!" I am glad you will still be involved in church, but as you go, don't vote with your money at the church you land at. Giving to the church is to be done with a greatful and humble heart and Forefront doesn't want your money if it's done as a vote of approval for us. How about this: I would love to know your name and we will pull your giving records as far back as we can, and give back every dime you ever gave to Forefront. God is way bigger than your pocket book or wallet. But again, please don't give to your next church with an idea that your money validates what they are doing. Do it because God commands us to give to Him. It's all His anyway.
3. You mentioned, "I am never coming to Forefront again." I am disheartened that you have come to that place after 11 years, but since Vince left our attendance at our Beach Campus has been up every Sunday. That's no slight on Him (he and I have talked about it), but we see God doing a great thing here and we're at the gates of something amazing...
So thank you for freeing up a seat. Someone who doesn't know God will thank you next Sunday.
Loving and Serving Him,
Jason *over and out*
Labels Forefront, Leadership, Setting The Bar
This is Vince. I miss you guys!!
But as for what Jason is saying here... amen. The ironic thing is that I've given the same message Jason did ("If you're a Christian who is coming and not serving, you're wasting a seat, give it up for someone who wants to live selflessly for Jesus and impact the world for Him") over and over at Forefront. So to use me against that message ... funny!
Okay, I've got to go gamble my life-savings away. It's 7:25 a.m., but I hear the casinos are always open.
Later on people,
vince
"A person's right to attend church on Sunday shouldn't have anything to do with whether we choose to serve!" If I had a penny for every church-goer I knew who agreed with this, I'd have a lot of pennies...so many things wrong with that statement...
I find it interesting that this person doesn't like your R&R and videos...and he thinks Vegas will be a good place for him to go? HAHA
And, I LOVE that it's been 11 FREAKIN' YEARS and this person is still sitting on his butt...well done on his part...he wouldn't have lasted half that long at our church.
If you're not willing to grab an oar and row, you have no "right" to rock the boat! And, if you're actually busy rowing, you don't even have the time or energy OR desire TO do any rocking!
I really see someone who is a bit upset that the preacher changed and there may be a few method changes but I know you and the message hasn't changed.
I think you will be better off knocking off these hanger-ons.
As everyone else said you don't need to be encouraged to do this because you are going to anyway but stay firm on the truth brother.
Mr. Church Goer - don't send your support our way either. Prayer would be good, because serving and giving will be part of Legacy's DNA from the very beginning. In fact, there will be Sunday's when no one will be in the seats - why?? Cuz we are going to go and be the Church, the Hands of Jesus and the community and not go to or do church! We are going to serve in the community on many Sundays as church. So.., sorry - no videos and rockin music that day; but there will be plenty of Jesus around!
Don't know who you are, but your comments sadden me and I am more inclined to pray for you than slam you. Your dead wrong on this one Mr. or Mrs. Church Goer - sorry!
Jason - hang tough braaa! Every lil ting will be aight! :-) Love ya man!
It stuns me a little that this person had been coming for 11 years and never heard that. I've only come to Forefront for about 5 years and I've heard that same idea several times. Also, it stuns me that the rock music and videos bothered them - seriously?!? In the most loving way I can say it - are you sure you've come to Forefront for the past 11 years and if so, why did you stay? If I was a part of a church and part of who they were and how they conveyed their message appalled me, I don't think I could have stuck in there that long.
Last thing is something Vince brought to my attention in a message he preached where he referenced 1 Cor. 12:7. It's this idea that God's Spirit gives us gifts for the common good of everyone. So that means if I don't use my gifts in serving then I'm hurting the rest of the body; I'm depriving and sabotaging the body of Christ. When a person doesn't serve, they hurt everyone, so please don't hurt me.
Also, I think Jason mentioned it, but Forefront is all about loving God, loving people, and turning the world upside down. I don't know how we can turn the world upside down without serving and doing something.
Jason, you're doing a great job as a leader and a pastor and you're taking this church to new levels (and I know Vince would agree with that.)
!!!!!!shameless plug alert!!!!!!!!
By the way, everyone check out my blog: jamesdavisonline.info.
Thank you to the leadership at Forefront for not being afraid to risk offending some people to tell us the truth.
Kevin Pullin